Danny Brown - Latest Comments in Why Your Numbers Game is BS

Re: Why Your Numbers Game is BS

kongrit — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 11:56:49 -0000

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Re: Why Your Numbers Game is BS

Danny — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:06:35 -0000

Completely agree with you Jackie. It&#39s one of the reasons I&#39m a big fan of market research and data mining, as opposed to blanket email lists. And, as you say, the after results speak for themselves why data analysis is so important.

Cheers!

Re: Why Your Numbers Game is BS

jackieadkins3 — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:23:29 -0000

Hi Danny, I&#39m a little late on this discussion, but just stumbled upon it while going through some of your older ones. Before reading your post, I was reared up ready to completely disagree with you, but after reading it, i think I was confusing "numbers" with "data."

I would agree that higher numbers aren&#39t always better, and your Twitter example is a perfect one. However, I&#39d argue that numbers in a data analysis sense are very valuable from a market research perspective, as they help you both in planning a marketing project as well evaluating it once it&#39s done. This way, you&#39re not going completely off of your gut, but taking calculated risks.

Re: Why Your Numbers Game is BS

Danny Brown — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:06:35 -0000

Completely agree with you Jackie. It's one of the reasons I'm a big fan of market research and data mining, as opposed to blanket email lists. And, as you say, the after results speak for themselves why data analysis is so important.

Cheers!

Re: Why Your Numbers Game is BS

Jackie Adkins — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 09:23:29 -0000

Hi Danny, I'm a little late on this discussion, but just stumbled upon it while going through some of your older ones. Before reading your post, I was reared up ready to completely disagree with you, but after reading it, i think I was confusing "numbers" with "data."

I would agree that higher numbers aren't always better, and your Twitter example is a perfect one. However, I'd argue that numbers in a data analysis sense are very valuable from a market research perspective, as they help you both in planning a marketing project as well evaluating it once it's done. This way, you're not going completely off of your gut, but taking calculated risks.

Re: Why Your Numbers Game is BS

Definition — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 11:49:44 -0000

Great posting. I like this.

People are so jaded to flyers on cars already, I&#39m willing to bet 99% of ours were thrown out. Only really our friends at that high school knew who we were and would consider going to our show.

Re: Why Your Numbers Game is BS

Definition — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 10:49:44 -0000

Re: Why Your Numbers Game is BS

Definition — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 06:49:44 -0000

Great posting. I like this.

People are so jaded to flyers on cars already, I'm willing to bet 99% of ours were thrown out. Only really our friends at that high school knew who we were and would consider going to our show.

Re: Why Your Numbers Game is BS

Danny — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 00:40:09 -0000

I&#39m not discounting the approach in general, "Ravm" - I&#39m questioning the method and its overall effectiveness if you have to put extra time and man hours into making that approach effective.

If you&#39re hitting people that aren&#39t targeted because of entrusting a mass mailing mindset, then you&#39re wasting resources that could be put to much better use elsewhere if that mass mailer info is incorrect and out-of-date.

I&#39ve worked and used both methods for employers in the past and I know they do work, to a degree. But I&#39ve also seen so many marketing budgets cut because of a poor response rate, and that&#39s hurt companies more than the "moral" aspect of spamming.

Thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts, appreciate it.

Re: Why Your Numbers Game is BS

ravm — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 00:27:04 -0000

You stated that the numbers game is utter bullsh*t and I completely disagree. What you&#39re really discussing is a divergence of approaches, both of which are equally effective when executed well. Now, you could state that being real and geniune makes your approach morally superior to grabbing a huge customer mailing list and spamming it, but your entire postulation gets destroyed in the face of so many people who are succeeding with these types of strategies. And I assure you that if people are doing it, they are experiencing some financial measure of success, otherwise they wouldn&#39t do it. So while you and I may despise such tactics, to discount them as ineffective is an injustice to the trade.

Re: Why Your Numbers Game is BS

Danny Brown — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 20:40:09 -0000

I'm not discounting the approach in general, "Ravm" - I'm questioning the method and its overall effectiveness if you have to put extra time and man hours into making that approach effective.

If you're hitting people that aren't targeted because of entrusting a mass mailing mindset, then you're wasting resources that could be put to much better use elsewhere if that mass mailer info is incorrect and out-of-date.

I've worked and used both methods for employers in the past and I know they do work, to a degree. But I've also seen so many marketing budgets cut because of a poor response rate, and that's hurt companies more than the "moral" aspect of spamming.

Thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts, appreciate it.

Re: Why Your Numbers Game is BS

ravm — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 20:27:04 -0000

You stated that the numbers game is utter bullsh*t and I completely disagree. What you're really discussing is a divergence of approaches, both of which are equally effective when executed well. Now, you could state that being real and geniune makes your approach morally superior to grabbing a huge customer mailing list and spamming it, but your entire postulation gets destroyed in the face of so many people who are succeeding with these types of strategies. And I assure you that if people are doing it, they are experiencing some financial measure of success, otherwise they wouldn't do it. So while you and I may despise such tactics, to discount them as ineffective is an injustice to the trade.

Re: Why Your Numbers Game is BS

GlobalPatriot — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:06:09 -0000

The ROI concept comes to mind, the discipline in which we should be focusing our efforts on measuring the return (benefit) we derive for the time and money we invested. Sadly, too many quote the top line numbers - followers, connections made, emails sent - because they&#39re easy to measure and sound impressive, instead of quantifying the results - sales made, projects identified, relationships enhanced - as these metrics require work to produce.

Re: Why Your Numbers Game is BS

GlobalPatriot — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:06:09 -0000

The ROI concept comes to mind, the discipline in which we should be focusing our efforts on measuring the return (benefit) we derive for the time and money we invested. Sadly, too many quote the top line numbers - followers, connections made, emails sent - because they're easy to measure and sound impressive, instead of quantifying the results - sales made, projects identified, relationships enhanced - as these metrics require work to produce.

Re: Why Your Numbers Game is BS

Danny — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:12:02 -0000

Seems a no-brainer, right? Target the responsive as opposed to battering down new doors of unaware strangers? &#39Course, you do need to get the new attention too, but why not use your music fans to help as well?

Re: Why Your Numbers Game is BS

Danny Brown — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:12:02 -0000

Seems a no-brainer, right? Target the responsive as opposed to battering down new doors of unaware strangers? 'Course, you do need to get the new attention too, but why not use your music fans to help as well?

Re: Why Your Numbers Game is BS

Tim Jahn — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:13:07 -0000

In high school, a week or so before my band&#39s next show, I&#39d head over to Kinkos and copy dozens of flyers onto neon colored paper. Then my band and I would head over to another high school in our district where we had some friends and put flyers on all the cars in the parking lot.

We thought that putting as many flyers as possible on as many cars as possible would equal more people at the show.

Nope. People are so jaded to flyers on cars already, I&#39m willing to bet 99% of ours were thrown out. Only really our friends at that high school knew who we were and would consider going to our show.

Seems obvious to me now, but to the uneducated and unexperienced, quantity always seems to be the answer. If we had just targeted those who liked our style of music...

Re: Why Your Numbers Game is BS

Danny — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:55:43 -0000

Simple and succinct, Mr Haydon, and true in each regard.

Re: Why Your Numbers Game is BS

John Haydon — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:32:21 -0000

In terms of the "investment" part of ROI, you invest:

Time
Good content
Your ear
Your heart

Re: Why Your Numbers Game is BS

Tim Jahn — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:13:07 -0000

In high school, a week or so before my band's next show, I'd head over to Kinkos and copy dozens of flyers onto neon colored paper. Then my band and I would head over to another high school in our district where we had some friends and put flyers on all the cars in the parking lot.

We thought that putting as many flyers as possible on as many cars as possible would equal more people at the show.

Nope. People are so jaded to flyers on cars already, I'm willing to bet 99% of ours were thrown out. Only really our friends at that high school knew who we were and would consider going to our show.

Seems obvious to me now, but to the uneducated and unexperienced, quantity always seems to be the answer. If we had just targeted those who liked our style of music...

Re: Why Your Numbers Game is BS

Danny Brown — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 07:55:43 -0000

Simple and succinct, Mr Haydon, and true in each regard.

Re: Why Your Numbers Game is BS

John Haydon — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 07:32:21 -0000

In terms of the "investment" part of ROI, you invest:

Time
Good content
Your ear
Your heart

Re: Why Your Numbers Game is BS

spinchange — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 03:10:04 -0000

"If you really want to show off your numbers, show off the amount of sales you got from your last project."

from your lips to the space&#39s collective ear.

Re: Why Your Numbers Game is BS

spinchange — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 23:10:04 -0000

"If you really want to show off your numbers, show off the amount of sales you got from your last project."

from your lips to the space's collective ear.

Re: Why Your Numbers Game is BS

Tom Vanlerberghe — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:01:36 -0000

Ofcourse I agree with you on that one.
Just trying to avoid the danger of underestimating the power of quantity.
But they should go hand in hand...

fun discussion